THUNDER BAY – “Premier, there you go again,” stated PC leader Tim Hudak. During Question Period in the Ontario Legislature on Wednesday, Progressive Conservative leader Tim Hudak tried five times to get what should have been a fairly simple answer from Premier Dalton McGuinty. Hudak asked, “Can you inform the members of the assembly when you first received the first draft of the 2011 auditor’s report?”. The Auditor General’s report goes out to the Government before it is released and Departments are thus able to make comment that is also published in the report.
Premier McGuinty ended up being asked five times by the Tory leader, and each time Hudak did not get an answer to his question.
“Ontario voters sent MPPs back to Queen’s Park to create the right conditions for job creation and rein in runaway government spending,” stated Hudak. “More than two months after the election, and throughout an entire legislative session, Dalton McGuinty didn’t bring forward a single new idea to address either. Instead, he stood by as Ontario lost another 44,000 full-time jobs since the election. And he ignored warnings about his unsustainable spending increases from the Opposition, the Auditor General, and even his own Drummond Commission, and announced another $2.5 billion in new spending this fall without a plan to find equivalent savings or reduce the debt”.
The report from the Auditor General had Hudak questioning many of the claims made by the Premier, during the election campaign.
“This is the fifth time I’ve asked you when you received the Auditor General’s report. I know you receive it months in advance—and, Premier, this is not comparing apples to oranges; this is the truth. The truth is the truth; the facts are the facts. The Auditor General, on page 112, said that between 2005 and 2011, “Ontario received $1.8 billion less for its electricity exports than what it … cost electricity ratepayers of Ontario.” In short, the auditor says that we have subsidized Quebec and New York $1.8 billion to take our power,” asked Hudak.
“The Premier had those facts before him, yet on November 10, they put out a press release saying the complete opposite, saying that we made money on it. Speaker, that is not in keeping with the truth. So I ask you, Premier, when you’re saying something that you know is not in keeping with the facts, why should any of us believe a word you say anymore?”
Premier McGuinty seemed to feel that Hudak’s questions were more about choices between traditional fossil fuels and his vision of wind and solar power projects. Premier McGuinty’s final answer was, “I thought the people of Ontario, on this issue in particular, were pretty decisive. They said yes to clean air, they said yes to new jobs, and they said yes to building a new foundation for prosperity that moves us beyond dirty fossil fuels into an exciting clean era of energy from renewable sources like the wind and the sun. I thought the people spoke very forcefully, very decisively and very directly on this matter, and I would encourage my honourable colleague to accept that”.
Here is the entire exchange from Question Period in the Ontario Legislature:
Mr. Tim Hudak: My question to the Premier: Can you inform the members of the assembly when you first received the first draft of the 2011 auditor’s report?
Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Speaker, I want to thank the honourable member for his question and, I think more importantly, I want to thank the auditor for his good work.
The auditor, as you know, sir, comments on the workings of our government on a regular basis. We always welcome those reports. We always carefully review the advice offered therein, and we always go to great lengths in order to adopt the recommendations put forward. I want to say that we received this particular report with that same sentiment, Speaker, and we look forward to moving on many of those recommendations.
The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?
Mr. Tim Hudak: I don’t think, with respect to the Premier, I received an answer on when precisely he received the report, and I think I know why. Premier, you would have received this report months ago, as would your cabinet ministers. That’s the way things work. Some ministries then respond and it’s included in the report.
So I ask you, given that you clearly had a draft of the auditor’s report months ago, why were you saying things that the Auditor General had actually debunked in his report that was sitting on your ministers’ desks? By way of example, you had claimed many times—you and your members—that the Auditor General had signed off on the way you handled the debt retirement charge on the hydro bills, but that is not in keeping with the facts.
Premier, why did you say things that you knew were not in keeping with the facts?
Hon. Dalton McGuinty: I’ll try to get to the nub of it, Speaker. We have a different perspective. We do not have a common view with respect to some of the values that we attach to some of the initiatives that we are pursuing.
For example, our clean energy plan is more than just an economic plan; it’s a statement of our values. Through that plan, we are saying we value clean air, we value the health and well-being of our families, we value the tens of thousands of jobs that that plan is creating and we value the fact that together we’re laying a foundation for future prosperity for our children and grandchildren so they can work in the renewable energy sector.
So again, I say to my honourable colleague and I recommend to him that he look beyond the economics—they’re important—and look at the values that inform our policy too.
The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.
Mr. Tim Hudak: Speaker, this is about the honesty of the Premier of the province of Ontario. This is about whether people can actually trust what the Premier says when he had this report months ago that debunked many of his claims he made during the election campaign day after day and since.
By way of example, on page 124 of the Auditor General’s report that the Premier had months ago, the Auditor General indicates that $8.7 billion has been collected in debt retirement charge revenue, when the Minister of Energy said, when it was announced, that it was a $7.8-billion residual stranded debt.
Day after day, time and time again, Premier, you and your ministers said the auditor signed off on your numbers. He in fact did not. So, Premier, why did you tell the people of Ontario over and over again something that you knew was not true?
Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Speaker, again, we have a parting of ways when it comes to the values that we attach to our green energy plan that extend beyond the pure economics. On the matter of the economics themselves, though, Speaker, our plan is very strong. We’re talking about 50,000 new jobs. We’re talking about 30 business investments. We’re talking about $26 billion of private money being invested in our province. That’s what we’re talking about there.
But beyond that, we are saying we value clean air for all our families, we value the health and well-being of our families and we value the creation of new jobs, including those that I celebrated yesterday in Windsor at CS Wind. We also value the fact that we are doing everything we can to lay a foundation for prosperity for our children and grandchildren so they will not be working in fossil fuels but, rather, renewable technologies.
Mr. Tim Hudak: Back to the Premier: The value we’re talking about here is telling the truth. We’re talking about the facts. We’re talking about transparency. You, Premier, now three times refused to tell me when you received the Auditor General’s report. You had it months ago, yet you said things over and over again through the campaign and since that you knew were not in keeping with the facts. So maybe you have a parting of the ways on values; the value is the truth, and we expect the Premier to actually occasionally be honest with the people of the province of Ontario.
Interjections.
The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Tightrope walk towards the impugning of telling the truth, so I would ask you to be very cautious. Next time, I’ll call you out of order.
Mr. Tim Hudak: Thank you, Speaker.
I’ll move on to point number 2 on this argument. You sent out a press release on November 10, claiming that you made $1.8 billion in exports from electricity, but on page 112, the Auditor General says the complete opposite: that you actually paid New York and Quebec $1.8 billion to take our power. Why the difference in what you said and what you knew was the truth?
Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Speaker, I think my honourable colleague in fact understands that he is comparing apples to oranges. But, again, it comes down to a fundamental difference in terms of values. The least expensive thing that we can do in Ontario to ensure that we have an adequate supply of electricity is to import coal from other jurisdictions, shovel that into a furnace and turn a blind eye to the consequences that has on our environment and the health and well-being of our families. That’s the least expensive thing that we can do to produce electricity in Ontario.
We’re making a different choice. There is a cost associated with that; we accept that. That’s why we put in place a clean energy benefit that is reducing the cost on all of our hydro bills by 10%, Speaker. As a—I’ll sit down there, Speaker.
The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?
Mr. Tim Hudak: Let me, in the next chance that the Premier rises—let me give him another chance here. This is the fifth time I’ve asked you when you received the Auditor General’s report. I know you receive it months in advance—and, Premier, this is not comparing apples to oranges; this is the truth. The truth is the truth; the facts are the facts. The Auditor General, on page 112, said that between 2005 and 2011, “Ontario received $1.8 billion less for its electricity exports than what it … cost electricity ratepayers of Ontario.” In short, the auditor says that we have subsidized Quebec and New York $1.8 billion to take our power.
The Premier had those facts before him, yet on November 10, they put out a press release saying the complete opposite, saying that we made money on it. Speaker, that is not in keeping with the truth. So I ask you, Premier, when you’re saying something that you know is not in keeping with the facts, why should any of us believe a word you say anymore?
Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Speaker, my honourable colleague will know that in fact there is kind of a to-and-fro when it comes to selling and importing of electricity. He may know that last year we came out ahead by $335 million. He may also want to recognize that, since 2006, we are ahead by $1.8 billion. And he may want to acknowledge that under the last two years of their government, we paid $900 million net to import electricity into Ontario.
The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.
Mr. Tim Hudak: Premier, there you go again. You’re saying something that has been debunked by the Auditor General, that was made in black and white to the media and to the public two days ago, but you had it months ago. So I want to get back to basic facts here. You received this report months and months ago, yet you said things, during the campaign and since, that you knew had already been debunked by the Auditor General. Another example: You sent out 15 press releases—count them, 15—boasting about 50,000 jobs that never happened, that the auditor says were part-time jobs at best, and that were tremendously exaggerated, we all know.
So, Premier, not once, not twice—three times you’ve said things that you knew were not in keeping with the facts. Why should we trust a word you say when you dismiss out of hand what the Auditor General said and what you knew months and months ago?
Hon. Dalton McGuinty: I thought we had a pretty important conversation about this particular policy during the recent election, and we had an opportunity to put our positions forward—
Interjections.
The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Order.
Hon. Dalton McGuinty: —and present them to the people of Ontario. I thought the people of Ontario, on this issue in particular, were pretty decisive. They said yes to clean air, they said yes to new jobs, and they said yes to building a new foundation for prosperity that moves us beyond dirty fossil fuels into an exciting clean era of energy from renewable sources like the wind and the sun. I thought the people spoke very forcefully, very decisively and very directly on this matter, and I would encourage my honourable colleague to accept that.